Question:

I had lasik done on january 3, 2000. best thing I ever did. Have 20/15 vision now, and no more glasses!!!!

Response:

What a great present to yourself!  Hope the screening goes well for you. Beverly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going in the morning for my screening to see if I qualify for intralasik eye surgery. It will be sooo good to get rid of my glasses. This is a present to myself for losing weight and getting to my goal. Wish me luck and pray for me! Hopefully by the weekend I will be on my way to a life without glasses as well as a life of 160+ lbs lighter. Peace! —  start  365  goal 200  maintaining 189-194 range  current 190

Response:

I had Wavefront PRK in May 2004.  It was the best thing I have ever done. PRK is like lasik, except there is no flap created….. the lasers are used directly on the eyeball.  It is more painful and has longer recovery then Lasik….. However, it is less invasive and has less side effects.  I was fine in under 5 days.  Anyway, my vision is perfect and my horrible astigmatism is gone!   Good luck on your consultation!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going in the morning for my screening to see if I qualify for intralasik eye surgery. It will be sooo good to get rid of my glasses. This is a present to myself for losing weight and getting to my goal. Wish me luck and pray for me! Hopefully by the weekend I will be on my way to a life without glasses as well as a life of 160+ lbs lighter. Peace! —  start  365  goal 200  maintaining 189-194 range  current 190

Response:

I am going in the morning for my screening to see if I qualify for intralasik eye surgery. It will be sooo good to get rid of my glasses. This is a present to myself for losing weight and getting to my goal. Wish me luck and pray for me! Hopefully by the weekend I will be on my way to a life without glasses as well as a life of 160+ lbs lighter. Peace!

I’d love to have lasik surgery! What a great present to yourself. Good luck! — PL (320/298/170) (First mini-goal: 299 Reached! 08/26/04) (Second mini-goal: 279) — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I am going in the morning for my screening to see if I qualify for intralasik eye surgery. It will be sooo good to get rid of my glasses. This is a present to myself for losing weight and getting to my goal. Wish me luck and pray for me! Hopefully by the weekend I will be on my way to a life without glasses as well as a life of 160+ lbs lighter. Peace! —  start  365  goal 200  maintaining 189-194 range  current 190

Response:

Question:

Anyone have cool quit money plans? If all goes well hopefully a gold ring with a nice big diamond for my beautiful girlfriends finger Glenn I will be continuing to gasp for breath, smell like an ashtray and line my lungs with a disgusting concoction of cancer causing chemicals for another 11 hours, 57 minutes and 7 seconds.

Wow…well I hope for your sake, and hers, that all goes well then! And do let us know when you’ve done the proposal – if you need tips on making it romantic…ask around! There are some very nice love stories around AS3 Not long till your quit starts…best wishes to you Glenn… Paula

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans? I’ve decided to find out how much I really saved by saving it.  I’ve set up an automatic transfer to take $150 a month out of my checking account and deposit it into my brokerage account.  When I get enough accumulated there to buy into a new mutual fund I’ll set up an automatic monthly buy order.  I have a brand new nephew.  When he gets to college age I should have about $70,000 for him. Of course, that’ll probably just buy books.

That is awesome!!  Considering the price of books now though, it might not cover them — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Columbia Jacket?? What is that? Misstiblu

Columbia makes the warmest winter wear.  Lightweight and comfortable yet able to withstand Minnesota winters with style.  They cost a bit though…..more than I usually spend on myself.  But since I "earned it" I figured why not. Sorry this took so long to reply.  I didn’t see your post until just now. (One of the drawbacks of a busy newsgroup…..hard to keep up with every post) Chris 4M

Response:

Columbia makes the warmest winter wear.  Lightweight and comfortable yet able to withstand Minnesota winters with style.  They cost a bit though…..more than I usually spend on myself.  But since I "earned it" I figured why not. Sorry this took so long to reply.  I didn’t see your post until just now. (One of the drawbacks of a busy newsgroup…..hard to keep up with every post) Chris 4M

Ohhhhhh   I get it now.  Hadn’t heard that "brand" before. Sounds cozy! Misstiblu

Response:

Wow…….what an innovative thing to do with your quit cash. My brother had it done and loves the freedom from glasses. *Spent my cash on a Columbia jacket* Chris 4M

Columbia Jacket?? What is that? Misstiblu

Response:

I’ve decided to find out how much I really saved by saving it.  I’ve set up an automatic transfer to take $150 a month out of my checking account and deposit it into my brokerage account.  When I get enough accumulated there to buy into a new mutual fund I’ll set up an automatic monthly buy order.  I have a brand new nephew.  When he gets to college age I should have about $70,000 for him. Of course, that’ll probably just buy books. Dawn One month, one week, four days, 6 hours, 12 minutes. 845 cigarettes not smoked, saving $211.29.

And….A Highlighter If he shops at Walmart   Misstiblu

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans?  

Well…IF I don’t spend it all on CANDY… I am buying a bedroom suite – nice one…king size bed  :-) Misstiblu

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans? Well first my ciagarette money is going to fund my masters. Then when I’m done with that, I think I will get a tummy tuck.  I have been working working to get back in physical shape, but I had a C section years ago and I just can’t get my tummy flat. I had put on 40 pounds over 4 years trying to quit smoking. I lost 20 of that before I started on this quit. This time I am doing the Atkins diet in conjunction with not smoking. I only think it’s fair that the cigarette money make me look better since the cigarettes made me fat. Merry

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans?

If all goes well hopefully a gold ring with a nice big diamond for my beautiful girlfriends finger Glenn I will be continuing to gasp for breath, smell like an ashtray and line my lungs with a disgusting concoction of cancer causing chemicals for another 11 hours, 57 minutes and 7 seconds.

Response:

Woo hoo Marie! I had thought about that surgery (I wear glasses for driving/movies etc) but I am too darn chicken…can’t even wear contacts cos my eyes are so sensitive…what a great thing to do with your quit money though! Mine keeps getting spent on the garden and renovating! Hehe… Hugs Paula

I love gardening and renovating, but it is winter here, so I can’t do much of either right now.  Surgery seemed a reasonable option — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Wow…….what an innovative thing to do with your quit cash. My brother had it done and loves the freedom from glasses. *Spent my cash on a Columbia jacket* Chris 4M

If I lived in the cold north, I would probably choose the Columbia jacket too — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans?  

I’ve decided to find out how much I really saved by saving it.  I’ve set up an automatic transfer to take $150 a month out of my checking account and deposit it into my brokerage account.  When I get enough accumulated there to buy into a new mutual fund I’ll set up an automatic monthly buy order.  I have a brand new nephew.  When he gets to college age I should have about $70,000 for him. Of course, that’ll probably just buy books. Dawn One month, one week, four days, 6 hours, 12 minutes. 845 cigarettes not smoked, saving $211.29.

Response:

Wow…….what an innovative thing to do with your quit cash. My brother had it done and loves the freedom from glasses. *Spent my cash on a Columbia jacket* Chris 4M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20 All of the post op instructions warn you about cig smoke, stay away from it, try not to get any in your eyes, etc.  I don’t have to worry about that anymore  Of course, staying away from the computer for 24 hours was torture!  I may just catch up on posts by next week. Anyone have cool quit money plans? — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

hmmmmmmm….I would love to have that surgery, mc.  But I’ve never had anything more than a few stitches….no surgeries at all…..and as chicken shit as I am, I’d be afraid to do this.  I’ve known a few people now who have had it done and never regretted it.  Good for you for having the guts to do it!!!!!  May be time for me to do some research on it… Sally

I had a couple of corneal abrasions from contacts over the years and as it got closer all I could remember was how much they hurt!  The surgery is really cool though, it didn’t hurt.  I will heartily recommend it! — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20

Woo hoo Marie! I had thought about that surgery (I wear glasses for driving/movies etc) but I am too darn chicken…can’t even wear contacts cos my eyes are so sensitive…what a great thing to do with your quit money though! Mine keeps getting spent on the garden and renovating! Hehe… Hugs Paula

Response:

That’s great news!!  I’ve heard a lot of good reports from ppl having the lasik surgery.  Be careful about bouncing around on yer bike….aren’t ya sposed to be kinda still and quiet for a while?

Dr told me yesterday I could ride if I felt up to it, so I did  I am still having close in vision adjustments, so computers and reading are hard. Anyone have cool quit money plans? Nope….I think I ate mine….no really….either that, or there really IS someone following close *behind*.   I was looking at all our pics on the Quit Buddies site the other day…..& came across your’s……you are lookin good….how’d ya do it??  What with the new eye balls…you is really makeing a new you.  And no effing smoking too…..Cool…WTG!! Ripley / eating oatmeal….might’s well just plaster it on my hips  :-( and be done with it.

Oatmeal is healthy and not really lots of calories, I eat it a lot for a snack in the winter  I had some health problems that caused me to think I needed to make some huge lifestyle changes.  I feel so much better now it has become easier to keep up!  the weight and the smoking are all just one day at a time. — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

hmmmmmmm….I would love to have that surgery, mc.  But I’ve never had anything more than a few stitches….no surgeries at all…..and as chicken shit as I am, I’d be afraid to do this.  I’ve known a few people now who have had it done and never regretted it.  Good for you for having the guts to do it!!!!!  May be time for me to do some research on it… Sally

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20 All of the post op instructions warn you about cig smoke, stay away from it, try not to get any in your eyes, etc.  I don’t have to worry about that anymore  Of course, staying away from the computer for 24 hours was torture!  I may just catch up on posts by next week. Anyone have cool quit money plans? — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20 All of the post op instructions warn you about cig smoke, stay away from it, try not to get any in your eyes, etc.  I don’t have to worry about that anymore  Of course, staying away from the computer for 24 hours was torture!  I may just catch up on posts by next week. Anyone have cool quit money plans?   — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20

That’s great news!!  I’ve heard a lot of good reports from ppl having the lasik surgery.  Be careful about bouncing around on yer bike….aren’t ya sposed to be kinda still and quiet for a while? Anyone have cool quit money plans?

Nope….I think I ate mine….no really….either that, or there really IS someone following close *behind*.   I was looking at all our pics on the Quit Buddies site the other day…..& came across your’s……you are lookin good….how’d ya do it??  What with the new eye balls…you is really makeing a new you.  And no effing smoking too…..Cool…WTG!! Ripley / eating oatmeal….might’s well just plaster it on my hips  :-(  and be done with it. — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

— Nuttin nasty in here!!  :-) Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20 All of the post op instructions warn you about cig smoke, stay away from it, try not to get any in your eyes, etc.  I don’t have to worry about that anymore  Of course, staying away from the computer for 24 hours was torture!  I may just catch up on posts by next week. Anyone have cool quit money plans?   — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20

That’s great news!!  I’ve heard a lot of good reports from ppl having the lasik surgery.  Be careful about bouncing around on yer bike….aren’t ya sposed to be kinda still and quiet for a while? Anyone have cool quit money plans?

Nope….I think I ate mine….no really….either that, or there really IS someone following close *behind*.   I was looking at all our pics on the Quit Buddies site the other day…..& came across your’s……you are lookin good….how’d ya do it??  What with the new eye balls…you is really makeing a new you.  And no effing smoking too…..Cool…WTG!! Ripley / eating oatmeal….might’s well just plaster it on my hips  :-(  and be done with it. — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

— Nuttin nasty in here!!  :-) Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

hmmmmmmm….I would love to have that surgery, mc.  But I’ve never had anything more than a few stitches….no surgeries at all…..and as chicken shit as I am, I’d be afraid to do this.  I’ve known a few people now who have had it done and never regretted it.  Good for you for having the guts to do it!!!!!  May be time for me to do some research on it… Sally

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20 All of the post op instructions warn you about cig smoke, stay away from it, try not to get any in your eyes, etc.  I don’t have to worry about that anymore  Of course, staying away from the computer for 24 hours was torture!  I may just catch up on posts by next week. Anyone have cool quit money plans? — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

That’s great news!!  I’ve heard a lot of good reports from ppl having the lasik surgery.  Be careful about bouncing around on yer bike….aren’t ya sposed to be kinda still and quiet for a while?

Dr told me yesterday I could ride if I felt up to it, so I did  I am still having close in vision adjustments, so computers and reading are hard. Anyone have cool quit money plans? Nope….I think I ate mine….no really….either that, or there really IS someone following close *behind*.   I was looking at all our pics on the Quit Buddies site the other day…..& came across your’s……you are lookin good….how’d ya do it??  What with the new eye balls…you is really makeing a new you.  And no effing smoking too…..Cool…WTG!! Ripley / eating oatmeal….might’s well just plaster it on my hips  :-( and be done with it.

Oatmeal is healthy and not really lots of calories, I eat it a lot for a snack in the winter  I had some health problems that caused me to think I needed to make some huge lifestyle changes.  I feel so much better now it has become easier to keep up!  the weight and the smoking are all just one day at a time. — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

hmmmmmmm….I would love to have that surgery, mc.  But I’ve never had anything more than a few stitches….no surgeries at all…..and as chicken shit as I am, I’d be afraid to do this.  I’ve known a few people now who have had it done and never regretted it.  Good for you for having the guts to do it!!!!!  May be time for me to do some research on it… Sally

I had a couple of corneal abrasions from contacts over the years and as it got closer all I could remember was how much they hurt!  The surgery is really cool though, it didn’t hurt.  I will heartily recommend it! — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20

Woo hoo Marie! I had thought about that surgery (I wear glasses for driving/movies etc) but I am too darn chicken…can’t even wear contacts cos my eyes are so sensitive…what a great thing to do with your quit money though! Mine keeps getting spent on the garden and renovating! Hehe… Hugs Paula

Response:

Wow…….what an innovative thing to do with your quit cash. My brother had it done and loves the freedom from glasses. *Spent my cash on a Columbia jacket* Chris 4M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Every once in a while we all post what we are doing or have done with our quit money.  This week I took a big plunge and gave a whole bunch of my quit money to my eye doctor and had lasik surgery.  Oh Wow!!!  After having worn glasses for as long as I can remember and contacts since I was 10, I am seeing 20/20 without any correction.  This is so cool!!!!!  I even went for a 20 mile ride yesterday, in honor of the 20/20 All of the post op instructions warn you about cig smoke, stay away from it, try not to get any in your eyes, etc.  I don’t have to worry about that anymore  Of course, staying away from the computer for 24 hours was torture!  I may just catch up on posts by next week. Anyone have cool quit money plans? — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Woo hoo Marie! I had thought about that surgery (I wear glasses for driving/movies etc) but I am too darn chicken…can’t even wear contacts cos my eyes are so sensitive…what a great thing to do with your quit money though! Mine keeps getting spent on the garden and renovating! Hehe… Hugs Paula

I love gardening and renovating, but it is winter here, so I can’t do much of either right now.  Surgery seemed a reasonable option — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Wow…….what an innovative thing to do with your quit cash. My brother had it done and loves the freedom from glasses. *Spent my cash on a Columbia jacket* Chris 4M

If I lived in the cold north, I would probably choose the Columbia jacket too — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans?  

I’ve decided to find out how much I really saved by saving it.  I’ve set up an automatic transfer to take $150 a month out of my checking account and deposit it into my brokerage account.  When I get enough accumulated there to buy into a new mutual fund I’ll set up an automatic monthly buy order.  I have a brand new nephew.  When he gets to college age I should have about $70,000 for him. Of course, that’ll probably just buy books. Dawn One month, one week, four days, 6 hours, 12 minutes. 845 cigarettes not smoked, saving $211.29.

Response:

Wow…….what an innovative thing to do with your quit cash. My brother had it done and loves the freedom from glasses. *Spent my cash on a Columbia jacket* Chris 4M

Columbia Jacket?? What is that? Misstiblu

Response:

I’ve decided to find out how much I really saved by saving it.  I’ve set up an automatic transfer to take $150 a month out of my checking account and deposit it into my brokerage account.  When I get enough accumulated there to buy into a new mutual fund I’ll set up an automatic monthly buy order.  I have a brand new nephew.  When he gets to college age I should have about $70,000 for him. Of course, that’ll probably just buy books. Dawn One month, one week, four days, 6 hours, 12 minutes. 845 cigarettes not smoked, saving $211.29.

And….A Highlighter If he shops at Walmart   Misstiblu

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans?  

Well…IF I don’t spend it all on CANDY… I am buying a bedroom suite – nice one…king size bed  :-) Misstiblu

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans? Well first my ciagarette money is going to fund my masters. Then when I’m done with that, I think I will get a tummy tuck.  I have been working working to get back in physical shape, but I had a C section years ago and I just can’t get my tummy flat. I had put on 40 pounds over 4 years trying to quit smoking. I lost 20 of that before I started on this quit. This time I am doing the Atkins diet in conjunction with not smoking. I only think it’s fair that the cigarette money make me look better since the cigarettes made me fat. Merry

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans?

If all goes well hopefully a gold ring with a nice big diamond for my beautiful girlfriends finger Glenn I will be continuing to gasp for breath, smell like an ashtray and line my lungs with a disgusting concoction of cancer causing chemicals for another 11 hours, 57 minutes and 7 seconds.

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans? If all goes well hopefully a gold ring with a nice big diamond for my beautiful girlfriends finger Glenn I will be continuing to gasp for breath, smell like an ashtray and line my lungs with a disgusting concoction of cancer causing chemicals for another 11 hours, 57 minutes and 7 seconds.

Wow…well I hope for your sake, and hers, that all goes well then! And do let us know when you’ve done the proposal – if you need tips on making it romantic…ask around! There are some very nice love stories around AS3 Not long till your quit starts…best wishes to you Glenn… Paula

Response:

Anyone have cool quit money plans? I’ve decided to find out how much I really saved by saving it.  I’ve set up an automatic transfer to take $150 a month out of my checking account and deposit it into my brokerage account.  When I get enough accumulated there to buy into a new mutual fund I’ll set up an automatic monthly buy order.  I have a brand new nephew.  When he gets to college age I should have about $70,000 for him. Of course, that’ll probably just buy books.

That is awesome!!  Considering the price of books now though, it might not cover them — mc I haven’t lost my mind, Its backed up on disk somewhere! 1Y

Response:

Columbia Jacket?? What is that? Misstiblu

Columbia makes the warmest winter wear.  Lightweight and comfortable yet able to withstand Minnesota winters with style.  They cost a bit though…..more than I usually spend on myself.  But since I "earned it" I figured why not. Sorry this took so long to reply.  I didn’t see your post until just now. (One of the drawbacks of a busy newsgroup…..hard to keep up with every post) Chris 4M

Response:

Columbia makes the warmest winter wear.  Lightweight and comfortable yet able to withstand Minnesota winters with style.  They cost a bit though…..more than I usually spend on myself.  But since I "earned it" I figured why not. Sorry this took so long to reply.  I didn’t see your post until just now. (One of the drawbacks of a busy newsgroup…..hard to keep up with every post) Chris 4M

Ohhhhhh   I get it now.  Hadn’t heard that "brand" before. Sounds cozy! Misstiblu

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tal wrote:

Remember, snoring is NOT apnea, but almost 100% of apnea patients snore! If you snore loudly enough to be heard outside the bedroom, have interrupted gaspy snores, and snore in all positions, that is most likely apnea.  You can worsen over time and convert snoring to apnea with weight gain, aging, sedatives, alcohol, etc. Of course, i have no evidence to back this up, but I’m betting more people than we realise have apnea and dont’ snore.  THere are a few who’ve posted here that have apnea and don’t snore, we had to fight to get a sleep study because the common response from GP/PCPs is "if you don’t snore you can’t have apnea" but it sure makes you wonder how many of us there are out there who have been told "you can’t have apnea because you dont’ snore" acutally do, but never have the opportunity to find out.

I am one of the ones who never snored. That is till I got anti depressants and sleeping pills while in the hospital and they referred me because of it. Funny thing, even after I stopped those pills I kept snoring, till I got CPAP of course.

Response:

Are there no clues to central apnea?? "Lori&Mike" <mpowellnos…@the-beach.net

wrote in message

news:vm5crosaavf905@corp.supernews.com… : : "People with central sleep apnea may or may not snore excessively." : http://health.msfc.nasa.gov/tips/apnea.html : : Makes sense to me since central apnea events usually don’t involve physical : obstructions. I NEVER snored and still don’t of course. To me now this was a big : clue that I had an underlying central component although sleep study showed none. : Also, huge weight loss had no effect, surgeries didn’t work, all clues of an : underlying central apnea. Sure enough now with all the obstructions cut out, I’m : almost all central apnea. What a waste of time, pain, and grief. Mike

Response:

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 19:00:43 GMT, Pavel wrote:

Are there no clues to central apnea??

Sleep apnea in general has clues (daytime fatigue, mood changes, hypertension). As to differentiating central, obstructive, and mixed events, that gets done in the sleep lab because they have to see exactly what happens:         Central (no breathing, not trying to breathe)         Obstructive (no breathing, trying to breathe)         Mixed (starts out central and then obstructs) — Offshore a CEO: buy an ADR!

Response:

In article <vPJ8b.131907$ho5.2194…@news2.telusplanet.net

,

newsgro…@DELETEQhotmail.com says…

Are there no clues to central apnea??

There sure are, Pavel. Mostly it’s from a detailed sleep study (polysomnogram or PSG) and the analysis of brain wave functions, but there are other, subtle clues that MAY help determining if CSA is something to be looked for…  Note that these are all things that can also occur with OSA, so if THAT has been ruled out, then look for CSA events. **Std disclaimer_ I’m not a doc or med professional- all of this is based on my OWN experience and observation, and confirmed by a PSG that showed definate Central events, and the continuation of Central Apnea events post-trach…. Others may NOT experience the same or similar symptoms, or there may be NO symptoms at all other than that general malaise and lethargy most apneacs (is that even a word?) have. During sleep hours: – periodic waking, either for bathroom trips (regular intervals) or gasping for air (irregular intervals). – Increase in urine output. – Might sweats (other than the grey flannel ones<g

).

While awake: – "forgetting" to breath- that gasp for air done while sitting at a computer or watching TV or otherwise mentally occupied. There’s a bunch of info out there for CSA, but here more than ever, Sturgeon’s Law prevails (95% of everything is shit)… take what you read with considerable doubt and trust very few "cures". continued luck in your hunt for knowledge, Vic

Response:

"Victor Radin" <vra…@ameritech.net

wrote in message

news:MPG.19cd2d21f0222a939897be@news.chi.sbcglobal.net…

During sleep hours: – periodic waking, either for bathroom trips (regular intervals)

Why is this (regular intervals)? I was amazed at how regularly I was getting up to urinate. 3 times a night and it was like I was using an alarm clock. Seemed to be within 5 minutes every time every night. Maybe my apneas were pretty regular in frequency and intensity? -Quick

Response:

In article <bsL8b.3633$Pi2.2…@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com

,

dave_horw…@NOSPAMsbcglobal.net says…

"Victor Radin" <vra…@ameritech.net wrote in message news:MPG.19cd2d21f0222a939897be@news.chi.sbcglobal.net… During sleep hours: – periodic waking, either for bathroom trips (regular intervals) Why is this (regular intervals)? I was amazed at how regularly I was getting up to urinate. 3 times a night and it was like I was using an alarm clock. Seemed to be within 5 minutes every time every night. Maybe my apneas were pretty regular in frequency and intensity? -Quick

As I understand it has to do with the kidneys working overtime, caused by the apnea events, thus filling the bladder. Since the bladder has a finite space and can only hold so much, every time it fills, it needs to be emptied. Fill time will vary from person to person but as you say- "Just like an alarm clock". It doesn’t seem to matter if I have anything to drink within hours or minutes of bedtime- kidney output caused by the apnea appears to be at a constant rate. vic

Response:

"Victor Radin" <vra…@ameritech.net

wrote in message

news:MPG.19cc70efa91fc9c89897bd@news.chi.sbcglobal.net… |  Pavel… | | Would that we all could be sunning on a tropical isle. My prior rant was | written with a satirical twist- I recall seeing your posting about not | getting the surgery and waiting for a full sleep study- a wise choice, | by the way.  Had I not seen your change of mind I would not have been | quite so glib. I kinda assumed that.  But, all too often we can easily skim and miss some things.   So, if anyone assumed that, I could understand it,  I just had to clarify. I got a quite a chuckle at what you all  wrote  ;-) On another note.  I’m curious to see what my GP has to say about my experience with the ENT.  Even though my GP says he has many OSA patients, I had to point out to him that night sweats are a result of SA.  At first he didn’t believe me, then the internist I saw last month wrote a letter to my GP advising him of the same.  However, neither will agree that GERD is a result of sleep apnea.  Hmmm.  Things should be verrrrry interesting.

Response:

"Tal" <sleepbethdisord…@softhome.net

wrote in message

news:bju93m$nfd1v$1@ID-148111.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

NO, no,no,no,no,no,no,no. I wrote in my previous post that I won’t be getting the surgery.  Nor have I been hypnotized. Everyone here reaffirms my gut feeling.  You are all so correct. That ENT specialist will be sunning in some wonderful tropical haven.  I wish I could do that.  forgive them we have so many come here sayign their doc has told them to have surgery and what should they expect, they get good advice from many here, then go off ignorign that advice to get the surgery their doc brainwashed them into….. I’m glad you’re different — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

He’s smarter than I was ) I wouldn’t be so adamant if I didn’t truly know that this surgery is useless and can make the situation worse. Mike

Response:

In article <wPw8b.943372$ro6.18756…@news2.calgary.shaw.ca

,

newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com says…

NO, no,no,no,no,no,no,no. I wrote in my previous post that I won’t be getting the surgery.  Nor have I been hypnotized. Everyone here reaffirms my gut feeling.  You are all so correct. That ENT specialist will be sunning in some wonderful tropical haven.  I wish I could do that.

Pavel… Would that we all could be sunning on a tropical isle. My prior rant was written with a satirical twist- I recall seeing your posting about not getting the surgery and waiting for a full sleep study- a wise choice, by the way.  Had I not seen your change of mind I would not have been quite so glib. — Sleepless by choice not chance, Vic

Response:

"Tal" <sleepbethdisord…@softhome.net

wrote in message

news:bju8or$mm7je$1@ID-148111.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Remember, snoring is NOT apnea, but almost 100% of apnea patients snore! If you snore loudly enough to be heard outside the bedroom, have interrupted gaspy snores, and snore in all positions, that is most likely apnea.  You can worsen over time and convert snoring to apnea with weight gain, aging, sedatives, alcohol, etc. Of course, i have no evidence to back this up, but I’m betting more people than we realise have apnea and dont’ snore.  THere are a few who’ve posted here that have apnea and don’t snore, we had to fight to get a sleep study because the common response from GP/PCPs is "if you don’t snore you can’t have apnea" but it sure makes you wonder how many of us there are out there who have been told "you can’t have apnea because you dont’ snore" acutally do, but never have the opportunity to find out. — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

As Beth mentioned, a lot but not all people with obstructive apnea snore. Doctors, as usual, try to attach a simple diagnosis for a complex problem. Estimates as high as 50% of the population has snored at some time or another. Snoring without apnea is called Primary Snoring http://www.uni-marburg.de/sleep/enn/database/asdadefs/def2d6.htm "People with central sleep apnea may or may not snore excessively." http://health.msfc.nasa.gov/tips/apnea.html Makes sense to me since central apnea events usually don’t involve physical obstructions. I NEVER snored and still don’t of course. To me now this was a big clue that I had an underlying central component although sleep study showed none. Also, huge weight loss had no effect, surgeries didn’t work, all clues of an underlying central apnea. Sure enough now with all the obstructions cut out, I’m almost all central apnea. What a waste of time, pain, and grief. Mike

Response:

NO, no,no,no,no,no,no,no. I wrote in my previous post that I won’t be getting the surgery.  Nor have I been hypnotized. Everyone here reaffirms my gut feeling.  You are all so correct. That ENT specialist will be sunning in some wonderful tropical haven.  I wish I could do that.

 forgive them we have so many come here sayign their doc has told them to have surgery and what should they expect, they get good advice from many here, then go off ignorign that advice to get the surgery their doc brainwashed them into….. I’m glad you’re different — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply —

Response:

Remember, snoring is NOT apnea, but almost 100% of apnea patients snore!

If

you snore loudly enough to be heard outside the bedroom, have interrupted gaspy snores, and snore in all positions, that is most likely apnea.  You can worsen over time and convert snoring to apnea with weight gain, aging, sedatives, alcohol, etc.

Of course, i have no evidence to back this up, but I’m betting more people than we realise have apnea and dont’ snore.  THere are a few who’ve posted here that have apnea and don’t snore, we had to fight to get a sleep study because the common response from GP/PCPs is "if you don’t snore you can’t have apnea" but it sure makes you wonder how many of us there are out there who have been told "you can’t have apnea because you dont’ snore" acutally do, but never have the opportunity to find out. — Beth in Australia (I am not a medical professional and anything stated in my posts is my opinion only unless specified otherwise) =================== FAQ for alt.support.sleep-disorder can be found here http://talhost.net/sleep Newsgroup Archives http://talhost.net/sleep/archives.htm this site is a work in progress – feel free to submit info/articles Remove my name to reply

Response:

NO, no,no,no,no,no,no,no. I wrote in my previous post that I won’t be getting the surgery.  Nor have I been hypnotized. Everyone here reaffirms my gut feeling.  You are all so correct. That ENT specialist will be sunning in some wonderful tropical haven.  I wish I could do that. "Victor Radin" <vra…@ameritech.net

wrote in message

news:MPG.19cc4f395b429289897bc@news.chi.sbcglobal.net… : Eric… : : You’re not looking at this with the proper attitude <g

. Pavel is

only : looking towards the future. Yes, he will have the $urgery because the : $urgeon has convinced him of the efficacy and efficiency of having it : done. True, the $surgeon will have a delightful cruise to the Islands. : Pavel will almost certainly need further treatment later, should he be : so lucky to HAVE a later. : : Pavel’s wife, significant other, next-of-kin will no doubt file a : malpractice suit against the $urgeon, should they be able to find him : sunning in Aruba. : : They will win the suit, take over the ex-$urgeons boat, and live : comfortably, albiet without Pavel who will have enjoyed a lovely demise : from hypertension, kidney failure, or hitting a bridge abutment caused : by his falling asleep whilst driving. : : Pavel is merely planning for his family’s future financial security. Not : every family is so blest as to have such a person with that foresight. : : regards, : Vic : with tongue planted firmly in cheek. : : In article <1t15mvsrtvqvnnpome1f076bo734025…@4ax.com

,

: db2e…@nospammindspring.com says… :

:

Pavel has been hyptnoized by the evil $urgeon beast.

:

Pavel  will get cut due to false hopes.

:

The $urgeon will have a Caribbean vacation.

:

The $urgeon wil not give a damn  that he/she has sped

:

Pavel’s path to death or a nusing home.

:

Pavel will be yet another victim of the $urgeons.

:

May God have mercy upon Pavel’s soul.

:

May Satan roast the $urgeon in hell for eternity for his/her

greed. :

:

regards,

:

eric pearson

:

db2e…@nospammindspring.com

Response:

Pavel wrote:

He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP is not for me.  

Say what?  Last time I checked there was no disclaimer on my CPAP that said "For ages 59 and up".  :-) I got started with my CPAP at age 32.  I’ve got the same one 12 years later… I think your ENT is not quite being up front with you and agree with the others here that you should run, not walk away from this guy. Ken

Response:

Ken, Pavel has been hyptnoized by the evil $urgeon beast. Pavel  will get cut due to false hopes. The $urgeon will have a Caribbean vacation. The $urgeon wil not give a damn  that he/she has sped Pavel’s path to death or a nusing home. Pavel will be yet another victim of the $urgeons. May God have mercy upon Pavel’s soul. May Satan roast the $urgeon in hell for eternity for his/her greed. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:01:37 GMT, Tamarisk <no-s…@sonic.net

wrote: Pavel wrote: He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP is not for me.   Say what?  Last time I checked there was no disclaimer on my CPAP that said "For ages 59 and up".  :-) I got started with my CPAP at age 32.  I’ve got the same one 12 years later… I think your ENT is not quite being up front with you and agree with the others here that you should run, not walk away from this guy. Ken

Response:

Eric… You’re not looking at this with the proper attitude <g

. Pavel is only

looking towards the future. Yes, he will have the $urgery because the $urgeon has convinced him of the efficacy and efficiency of having it done. True, the $surgeon will have a delightful cruise to the Islands. Pavel will almost certainly need further treatment later, should he be so lucky to HAVE a later. Pavel’s wife, significant other, next-of-kin will no doubt file a malpractice suit against the $urgeon, should they be able to find him sunning in Aruba. They will win the suit, take over the ex-$urgeons boat, and live comfortably, albiet without Pavel who will have enjoyed a lovely demise from hypertension, kidney failure, or hitting a bridge abutment caused by his falling asleep whilst driving. Pavel is merely planning for his family’s future financial security. Not every family is so blest as to have such a person with that foresight. regards, Vic with tongue planted firmly in cheek. In article <1t15mvsrtvqvnnpome1f076bo734025…@4ax.com

,

db2e…@nospammindspring.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Pavel has been hyptnoized by the evil $urgeon beast. Pavel  will get cut due to false hopes. The $urgeon will have a Caribbean vacation. The $urgeon wil not give a damn  that he/she has sped Pavel’s path to death or a nusing home. Pavel will be yet another victim of the $urgeons. May God have mercy upon Pavel’s soul. May Satan roast the $urgeon in hell for eternity for his/her greed. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com

Response:

As a sleep technician with 20+ years of experience, can you suggest how we get this doctor/ripoff artist punished for his bad behavior? "bs" <some…@adelphia.net

wrote in message

news:AJi8b.200$VL4.322851@news2.news.adelphia.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

As a tech with 20+ yrs of exp, I have to reply and agree with all of the before mentioned comments. If you are sleepy, fatigued, have high blood pressure, and snore, you will show sleep apnea on your PSG.   If your circulatory system is in fair shape, you won’t show much on a pulse ox screen.  Depending on the setting for sample rate on device, it can miss quick drops in o2 sat.  Think why a ENT would want to show that you are

mild

and not need a CPAP!  If you don’t go anywhere else thinking you are mild, and have surgery, pay out of pocket, you won’t have high expectations (UPPP/LAUP always lessens snoring, so you will initially be happy, despite the pain), you remain tired, and your apnea gets worse. There are dozens of published studies that show UPPP/LAUP failures,  What the ENT crowd can’t do is publish studies that use actual PSG data showing resolution of all resp events, brain arousals, and normal sleep after surgery.  THey state that a cure is 50% reduction in Apnea Hypopnea Index (AHI)  or sometimes just spouse reporting of reduced snoring!   Most of their research is limited to small sample sizes.  The ONLY ENT PROGRAM

that

publishes decent data is Dr Powell and Riley at Stanford.  They use PSG pre-post to get actual outcomes on various procedures.  If you stop breathing 200 times per night, or have partial events 200 times per night and have surgery, and if everything works perfect, you can maybe get to

the

50% reduction, so you still have 100 events!  Not good! A screening test that does not detect pauses in breathing with a airflow sensor, along with oximetry and body position is invalid except for severe levels of OSA.  Many screening tests like the SNAP (snore microphone) are not covered by insurance, so you pay out of pocket.  By the time you pay

out

of pocket for the test, then surgery, you could have gotten a eval by

sleep

doc, real sleep study, and CPAP.  Especially if you have insurance, your copay for real tests and treatment would be less than costs associated

with

the other ENT promoted options. As a tech, we also see many patients post UPPP/LAUP that end up on CPAP anyway and can’t tolerate the simple nasal masks due to mouth leaks.  The removal of palate causes air to gush out the mouth since there is no

longer

a seal between the tongue and palate, allowing air to go down into the airway.  We end up trying full face masks and chin straps, which are not comfortable! Remember, snoring is NOT apnea, but almost 100% of apnea patients snore!

If > you snore loudly enough to be heard outside the bedroom, have interrupted > gaspy snores, and snore in all positions, that is most likely apnea.  You > can worsen over time and convert snoring to apnea with weight gain, aging, > sedatives, alcohol, etc. > Finally, the paper by Dr. Schmidt is accurate and just because the snoring > is cured, brain arousals can remain, leading to continued sleep disruption > and fatigue….. > Regards > Bret (RPSGT #106) > "h.sanders" <h.sand…@comcast.net

wrote in message

> news:ZimdnRHL8_GHwPyiXTWJhQ@comcast.com… > > "Pavel" <newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com

wrote in message

> > news:8T78b.85858$_5.1508189@news1.telusplanet.net… > > > I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat > > > specialist.  He stuck this cable down my nose/throat and showed me how > my > > > uvula is flapping all over the place when I made a snoring sounding > noise. > > > I have mild sleep apnea via oximeter (spell?) , but I am going to a > sleep > > > study clinic.  He says that those that are not very overweight ( I think

I’m 10-15 lbs overweight)  -5 .9 /4 feet and 180 lbs like me stand a good chance to benefit from this treatment.  He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP is not for me.  However, in no way did he guarantee or assure me that my sleep apnea will improve.  He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  His

procedure

is not covered under any medical plan and neither is the CPAP machine unless I have moderate to severe sleep apnea. http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mintz/snorcond.htm Comments anyone have any input? —————————————————- Run away from this character as fast as you can. He’s a surgeon and he only makes money if he cuts, slices and dices. Oximetry won’t tell you if you have apnea. It just measures the oxygen saturation in your blood. You

need

a real sleep study to know if you have apnea, whether it be mild or

severe.

I have never read anywhere that age has much to do with apnea. When I was getting my study and titration, a 2-yr-old was in the clinic having the same study.  This guy certainly doesn’t appear to have your best interests at heart.  Run, don’t walk, to a REAL sleep doctor. Cheers, Hal S.

Response:

1) Get a real sleep study before you do anything else. Oximeter testing is insufficient. Even though my O2 was near normal, I had very severe apnea (97/hour). 2) Surgery (except trache) is usually ineffective. Get at least two more opinions (preferably from sleep docs who are not ENT or $urgeons). In most cases surgery accomplishes nothing other than to enrich the $urgeon. 3) A flapping uvula while you are awake and emulating snoring has very little to do with how your airway functions when you are asleep. I suspect your doctor is doing you a disservice. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:50:28 GMT, "Pavel" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com

wrote: I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat specialist.  He stuck this cable down my nose/throat and showed me how my uvula is flapping all over the place when I made a snoring sounding noise. I have mild sleep apnea via oximeter (spell?) , but I am going to a sleep study clinic.  He says that those that are not very overweight ( I think I’m 10-15 lbs overweight)  -5 .9 /4 feet and 180 lbs like me stand a good chance to benefit from this treatment.  He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP is not for me.  However, in no way did he guarantee or assure me that my sleep apnea will improve.  He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  His procedure is not covered under any medical plan and neither is the CPAP machine unless I have moderate to severe sleep apnea. http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mintz/snorcond.htm Comments anyone have any input?

Response:

As a tech with 20+ yrs of exp, I have to reply and agree with all of the before mentioned comments. If you are sleepy, fatigued, have high blood pressure, and snore, you will show sleep apnea on your PSG.   If your circulatory system is in fair shape, you won’t show much on a pulse ox screen.  Depending on the setting for sample rate on device, it can miss quick drops in o2 sat.  Think why a ENT would want to show that you are mild and not need a CPAP!  If you don’t go anywhere else thinking you are mild, and have surgery, pay out of pocket, you won’t have high expectations (UPPP/LAUP always lessens snoring, so you will initially be happy, despite the pain), you remain tired, and your apnea gets worse. There are dozens of published studies that show UPPP/LAUP failures,  What the ENT crowd can’t do is publish studies that use actual PSG data showing resolution of all resp events, brain arousals, and normal sleep after surgery.  THey state that a cure is 50% reduction in Apnea Hypopnea Index (AHI)  or sometimes just spouse reporting of reduced snoring!   Most of their research is limited to small sample sizes.  The ONLY ENT PROGRAM that publishes decent data is Dr Powell and Riley at Stanford.  They use PSG pre-post to get actual outcomes on various procedures.  If you stop breathing 200 times per night, or have partial events 200 times per night and have surgery, and if everything works perfect, you can maybe get to the 50% reduction, so you still have 100 events!  Not good! A screening test that does not detect pauses in breathing with a airflow sensor, along with oximetry and body position is invalid except for severe levels of OSA.  Many screening tests like the SNAP (snore microphone) are not covered by insurance, so you pay out of pocket.  By the time you pay out of pocket for the test, then surgery, you could have gotten a eval by sleep doc, real sleep study, and CPAP.  Especially if you have insurance, your copay for real tests and treatment would be less than costs associated with the other ENT promoted options. As a tech, we also see many patients post UPPP/LAUP that end up on CPAP anyway and can’t tolerate the simple nasal masks due to mouth leaks.  The removal of palate causes air to gush out the mouth since there is no longer a seal between the tongue and palate, allowing air to go down into the airway.  We end up trying full face masks and chin straps, which are not comfortable! Remember, snoring is NOT apnea, but almost 100% of apnea patients snore!  If you snore loudly enough to be heard outside the bedroom, have interrupted gaspy snores, and snore in all positions, that is most likely apnea.  You can worsen over time and convert snoring to apnea with weight gain, aging, sedatives, alcohol, etc. Finally, the paper by Dr. Schmidt is accurate and just because the snoring is cured, brain arousals can remain, leading to continued sleep disruption and fatigue….. Regards Bret (RPSGT #106) "h.sanders" <h.sand…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:ZimdnRHL8_GHwPyiXTWJhQ@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Pavel" <newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com

wrote in message

> news:8T78b.85858$_5.1508189@news1.telusplanet.net… > > I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat > > specialist.  He stuck this cable down my nose/throat and showed me how my

uvula is flapping all over the place when I made a snoring sounding

noise.

I have mild sleep apnea via oximeter (spell?) , but I am going to a

sleep

study clinic.  He says that those that are not very overweight ( I think I’m 10-15 lbs overweight)  -5 .9 /4 feet and 180 lbs like me stand a good chance to benefit from this treatment.  He feels given my age (36) that the

CPAP

is not for me.  However, in no way did he guarantee or assure me that my sleep apnea will improve.  He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  His procedure

is

not covered under any medical plan and neither is the CPAP machine

unless

I have moderate to severe sleep apnea. http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mintz/snorcond.htm Comments anyone have any input? —————————————————- Run away from this character as fast as you can. He’s a surgeon and he

only

makes money if he cuts, slices and dices. Oximetry won’t tell you if you have apnea. It just measures the oxygen saturation in your blood. You need

a

real sleep study to know if you have apnea, whether it be mild or severe.

I

have never read anywhere that age has much to do with apnea. When I was getting my study and titration, a 2-yr-old was in the clinic having the

same

study.  This guy certainly doesn’t appear to have your best interests at heart.  Run, don’t walk, to a REAL sleep doctor. Cheers, Hal S.

Response:

I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat specialist.  He stuck this cable down my nose/throat and showed me how my uvula is flapping all over the place when I made a snoring sounding noise. I have mild sleep apnea via oximeter (spell?) , but I am going to a sleep study clinic.  He says that those that are not very overweight ( I think I’m 10-15 lbs overweight)  -5 .9 /4 feet and 180 lbs like me stand a good chance to benefit from this treatment.  He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP is not for me.  However, in no way did he guarantee or assure me that my sleep apnea will improve.  He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  His procedure is not covered under any medical plan and neither is the CPAP machine unless I have moderate to severe sleep apnea. http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mintz/snorcond.htm Comments anyone have any input?

Response:

I recently had UPPP+tonsillectomy, it’s too soon to tell if it’s been effective.  The LAUP is supposed to be less painful initially, but still has a long (2 week+) recovery time.   And that is not even "complete" recovery, just a major absence of pain and the regained ability to eat more solid food.  Swallowing will still hurt or be very uncomfortable. I asked about the laser assisted surgery prior to getting the conventional. There are no doctors in my area that do it.  I believe that just because they use a "laser" doesn’t make the procedure more effective, tissue is still being removed, it’s just being cauterized as you go.  Post-op bleeding is still a risk, and to have the surgery done on an outpatient basis is close to irresponsible, unless you live next door to the hospital I don’t see where your age has anything to do with getting the CPAP.  It is THE effective treatment for apnea.  Since you say yours is mild, the surgery is probably going too far, too fast.  Try the machine first , it works.  In my case though, since I’m active duty military, I can’t deploy, etc with a CPAP.  I elected to try the surgery so I could remain in the service and deploy.  Given a different situation, I would NOT have the surgery. Ed "Pavel" <newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com

wrote in message

news:8T78b.85858$_5.1508189@news1.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat specialist.  He stuck this cable down my nose/throat and showed me how my uvula is flapping all over the place when I made a snoring sounding noise. I have mild sleep apnea via oximeter (spell?) , but I am going to a sleep study clinic.  He says that those that are not very overweight ( I think

I’m

10-15 lbs overweight)  -5 .9 /4 feet and 180 lbs like me stand a good

chance

to benefit from this treatment.  He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP

is

not for me.  However, in no way did he guarantee or assure me that my

sleep

apnea will improve.  He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  His procedure is not covered under any medical plan and neither is the CPAP machine unless

I

have moderate to severe sleep apnea. http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mintz/snorcond.htm Comments anyone have any input?

Response:

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:50:28 GMT, Pavel wrote:

I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat specialist.  

ENT = surgeon. Attempts to find surgical solutions to problems.

He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP is not for me.  

Wonder at what age he would recommend a CPAP? I have a nephew who went on it before he was 25.

He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  

He more likely than not wants a Lexus… a link is below: http://www.lexus.com/ <wink

His procedure is not covered under any medical plan

IMHO: Red flag right there. My experience is that they generally cover anything that hasn’t been determined to be useless.

and neither is the CPAP machine unless I have moderate to severe sleep apnea.

Since you haven’t had a study, you don’t know what you have other than some oxygen desaturation. — Offshore a CEO: buy an ADR!

Response:

Dear sir, Please don’t be insulted when I tell you that this doctor needs to have a cranial-anal retraction procedure done.  In other words, he has his head up his ass. 1) If you haven’t had a sleep study, you don’t know how bad your apnea is. You don’t even know if you have apnea, or it could be severe. 2) A CPAP is a painless way to treat sleep apnea.  You may be able to lose some weight and lose the apnea as well, but the CPAP won’t hurt you, and will solve your sleep problems if you do have apnea. 3) I don’t care how old you are–this surgery is bad bad bad.  Further, if it doesn’t work, it will render you less able to use the CPAP, and potentially leave you in worse shape regarding apnea.  Add to that the pain, the fact that you’ll cough liquid out of your nose (I don’t do that), and that it has such a low success rate, and it would be foolish for you to follow this doctor’s bad advice. 4) I had LASIK surgery because of a rare combination of eye problems.  I was told by the eye doctor that I should pay for the surgery even if my insurance carrier didn’t, as it would prevent the bleeding in the back of my eye, fix the alignment problems, and make it so I could actually see 20/20 for the first time in many years. Lack of CPAP can kill you, either by causing heart damage, or by causing facial and chest impaction when you fall asleep behind the wheel of your fast-moving car.  CPAP is cheaper than LASIK, and it probably is covered by your insurance.  Even if not, this is a no-brainer. 5) Before you do anything, switch doctors.  You may not even have a problem, other than your doctor wanting to make a payment on the condo in Maui.     Gary (you know I’m riled if I cuss in the first paragraph) Rimar "Pavel" <newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com

wrote in message

news:8T78b.85858$_5.1508189@news1.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat specialist.  He stuck this cable down my nose/throat and showed me how my uvula is flapping all over the place when I made a snoring sounding noise. I have mild sleep apnea via oximeter (spell?) , but I am going to a sleep study clinic.  He says that those that are not very overweight ( I think

I’m

10-15 lbs overweight)  -5 .9 /4 feet and 180 lbs like me stand a good

chance

to benefit from this treatment.  He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP

is

not for me.  However, in no way did he guarantee or assure me that my

sleep

apnea will improve.  He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  His procedure is not covered under any medical plan and neither is the CPAP machine unless

I

have moderate to severe sleep apnea. http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mintz/snorcond.htm Comments anyone have any input?

Response:

"Pavel" <newsgro…@NOSPAMhotmail.com

wrote in message

news:8T78b.85858$_5.1508189@news1.telusplanet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just came back from my [first] visit to an ear, nose, and throat specialist.  He stuck this cable down my nose/throat and showed me how my uvula is flapping all over the place when I made a snoring sounding noise. I have mild sleep apnea via oximeter (spell?) , but I am going to a sleep study clinic.  He says that those that are not very overweight ( I think

I’m

10-15 lbs overweight)  -5 .9 /4 feet and 180 lbs like me stand a good

chance

to benefit from this treatment.  He feels given my age (36) that the CPAP

is

not for me.  However, in no way did he guarantee or assure me that my

sleep

apnea will improve.  He’s Dr. Dickson.  a link is below.  His procedure is not covered under any medical plan and neither is the CPAP machine unless

I

have moderate to severe sleep apnea. http://www.interchange.ubc.ca/mintz/snorcond.htm Comments anyone have any input? —————————————————-

Run away from this character as fast as you can. He’s a surgeon and he only makes money if he cuts, slices and dices. Oximetry won’t tell you if you have apnea. It just measures the oxygen saturation in your blood. You need a real sleep study to know if you have apnea, whether it be mild or severe. I have never read anywhere that age has much to do with apnea. When I was getting my study and titration, a 2-yr-old was in the clinic having the same study.  This guy certainly doesn’t appear to have your best interests at heart.  Run, don’t walk, to a REAL sleep doctor. Cheers, Hal S.

Response:

"Lori&Mike" <mpowellnos…@the-beach.net

wrote in message

| Usually less tissue removed/burned by LAUP versus UPPP so that’s good. Otherwise | both procedures have an abysmal long term record and can actually worsen apnea in | the years to come. Check out http://www.sleepohio.com/press3.asp and do a search | on www.google on LAUP side effects/long term results/failures,, etc. I don’t wish to have the surgery and I likely will not.  But, let me play the devil’s advocate for a moment: I was not able to find any "hard" evidence listing any side-effects/failures.   The Ohio based study is only 1 study.  A specialist or doctor would need more studies to show the failures. Hearsay or personal experiences of some individuals would not satisfy any scientist.  A large sample needs to be taken.  There [seems to be] a lack of follow-up studies done or not enough participants having submitted the follow-up information. The data is incomplete. Now, back to being me: My medical plan will NOT cover the LAUP procedure.  Why?  Obviously because they see it as no medical benefit. Now, I’m starting to be very concerned.  I have other symptoms that I believe are a cause (indirect or direct) of sleep apnea: mild hypertension, mildly high pulse rate, GERD, and night-sweats.  If my GP,  specialist, sleep study doctor will not support me;  if my sleep study shows mild apnea and/or  "upper airway resistance syndrome" I am really screwed.  At the very least, I’ll have to buy the CPAP myself without any insurance company’s help and I’ll be worried about the treatment of  my other conditions. | | Ask doctor if he will put it in writing that your apnea won’t be WORSE 10 months | after surgery (mine was)! Try losing the weight and sleep on your side. Hurts less | and is free and might actually help ) Mike I already asked him that.  He said he can’t guarantee anything.  I doubt I’ll go back.  I will give my GP %$#! in two weeks when I visit him for referring me to the ENT specialist.  The good thing is that I did manage to get an appointment through him for the (other) sleep study clinic that I suggested to him late next month.  Normally, one has to wait a year if one goes to the University. I’m surprised he referred me there because he wanted me to go to the University but I asked him about the other one in town and if he could pull a few strings to get me there.   He also  [appeared] frustrated that I didn’t want to go for the LAUP.   He did a great sales job though in his presentation.  He even commented that he had it done too,  not for SA, but for the snoring. I’ll work on the losing weight–I keep on telling myself that but I am so darn tired after I come home from work.  There is always some interuption of sleep  in my apartmentve.  I need to move to a concrete building.  If I think about things…. I feel like I’m just chasing my tail. And this is to all in the group.  I haven’t thanked each person for their posts.  I appreciate everyone’s post and your candour.   This group is great. I thank everyone very much.   I’m learning a lot but I know there is sooooo much to learn here.  I’ll be here regularly.  Again, thank you all. Pavel

Response:

Question:

Upon research into arthritis, directed by many sites recommended to me as a new list person(!), I’m finding that some folks started out with fevers – usually low-grade, for quite some time.  For over 3 years I have had a FUO (fever – unknown origin).  They’ve done multiple blood tests – ruled out Chronic Fatigue,etc.  But, having never seen a rheumatologist, YET, I’m wondering if that is another "symptom" that was overlooked.  Even still, in the hand surgeon’s office yesterday, the tech stated "you’re too young to have arthritis this bad (bad enough to have the bone removed from the base of my thumb – right one of course, so excuse any typo’s!).  I’ve called my PCP for a referral, so hopefully that will happen soon.  I’m just curious as to how many folks had the fever prior to the diagnosis, and what is the cause of that?  I have OA, or so I’m "assuming" as I don’t have hot/swollen joints, just pain and achiness. Also, to make this even longer(!), when I was laid off last year, I "awarded" myself with LASIK with my unused vacation money.  I have read that with RA you shouldn’t have this done, & I’ve had multiple problems.  I did ask my PCP’s office to assure me that I didn’t have RA as the eye surgeon said they couldn’t do it if I did.  Why is it that RA patients aren’t supposed to have the surgery.  I just keep reading that they shouldn’t. Ok, sorry for all the questions, but the research seems to create even more for me at this juncture.  Jamie

Response:

Jamie, I have OA so can’t answer most of your questions.  But you are NEVER too young to have disabling arthritis! Gwen

Response:

The fever is part of the inflammatory process. Yes, I have had low grade fever for most of my life, and the temp is usually higher late in the day. The reason that laser surgery may not be recommended in patioents with RA is that there may be eye involvemet as part of the disease. Iritis and scleritis are often part of RA, as is dry eye, known as secondary sjogren’s disease. There are also implications to rate of healing, succeptibility  (sp ?? I can’t think) to infection, and eye involvement as a result of the meds we may take. So there are a whole list of reasons why lasik surgery may not be a good idea. Also regarding your arthritis, there are over 170 diseases and conditions which fall under that term. Maybe you do not have RA, but that does not mean you don’t have an inflammatory form of the disease. One thing that comes to mind is Adult Onset Still’s Disease which has fever as an associated symptom in addition to teh joint involvement. Clearly, a Rheumatologist would be the best person to give you a clear indication in what is going on. Have you looked at drdoc’s site yet? Rose

Response:

Jaime, As Rose stated, low grade fever can very much be a part of some of the dfferent forms of arthritis.   That is why seeing a rheumatologist is so important.  One thing you may find helpful is to go visit the www.arthritisinsight.com site and read some of the members stories of how they started out with their arthritis.   Many describe the different symptoms and such and you may find this helpful and may see yourself in some of those stories. Good luck! Donna G

Response:

Thanks Rose for your response.  I don’t know drdoc’s site, so I’ll check it out.    Is it just drdoc.com?  Thanks, Jamie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fever is part of the inflammatory process. Yes, I have had low grade fever for most of my life, and the temp is usually higher late in the day. The reason that laser surgery may not be recommended in patioents with RA is that there may be eye involvemet as part of the disease. Iritis and scleritis are often part of RA, as is dry eye, known as secondary sjogren’s disease. There are also implications to rate of healing, succeptibility  (sp ?? I can’t think) to infection, and eye involvement as a result of the meds we may take. So there are a whole list of reasons why lasik surgery may not be a good idea. Also regarding your arthritis, there are over 170 diseases and conditions which fall under that term. Maybe you do not have RA, but that does not mean you don’t have an inflammatory form of the disease. One thing that comes to mind is Adult Onset Still’s Disease which has fever as an associated symptom in addition to teh joint involvement. Clearly, a Rheumatologist would be the best person to give you a clear indication in what is going on. Have you looked at drdoc’s site yet? Rose

Response:

http://www.arthritis.co.za/ There you go Jamie Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Rose for your response.  I don’t know drdoc’s site, so I’ll check it out.    Is it just drdoc.com?  Thanks, Jamie

Response:

Jaime, Go to www.drdoc.org Donna G

Response:

Thanks Donna – that worked!   Jamie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jaime, Go to www.drdoc.org Donna G

Response:

Thanks Donna and Caroline for suppplying the addy. Rose

Response:

Thanks!  I bookmarked the site.  Jamie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.arthritis.co.za/ There you go Jamie Duckie Thanks Rose for your response.  I don’t know drdoc’s site, so I’ll check it out.    Is it just drdoc.com?  Thanks, Jamie

Response:

Even still, in the hand surgeon’s office yesterday, the tech stated "you’re too young to have arthritis this bad

THAT is stupid.  Arthritis is no respecter of age, sex, ethnic background, or income bracket. I have OA, or so I’m "assuming" as I don’t have hot/swollen joints, just pain and achiness.

That is not something that you can assume.  I have had Psoriatic arthritis for a few years (5-6 I think) and I do NOT normally get hot, red, swollen, joints. Or at least ones that are readily apparent to casual observation. My RD can ALWAYS tell.  (But I think he may be touch telepathic.) I did ask my PCP’s office to assure me that I didn’t have RA as the eye surgeon said they couldn’t do it if I did.

This was probably based on the fact of a negative RA factor in your blood, which is not conclusive evidence that you do not have RA. Ok, sorry for all the questions, but the research seems to create even more for me at this juncture.

Hope you get in to see an RD soon, and finally get some answers. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

Question:

They have to drill a hole between your ear and your skull to put the tube through. I put that in the same category as Lasik surgery. Probably excellent for some people, but not for me. I’ve seen too many people who developed cauliflower ear from simple "pin back" surgery. And you still have to have a behind the ear hearing aid with batteries, etc. nuxgpwk "Dan" <hhiss…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20030220093859.27479.00000001@mb-cv.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Source: bhNEWS From WROC TV, Rochester, NY Heard the News? (RetroX) 2/17/2003 5:00 PM (Elizabeth Harness, WROC-TV) The latest advance in hearing aid technology has come to Rochester. It’s

an

implantable hearing aid called the "RetroX." In this News 8 Now exclusive, Elizabeth Harness talks with the doctor who

is

the first in the state to use this "almost invisible" technology. 33 million people nationwide have a hearing problem…but only one-sixth

wear a

hearing aid. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Most people cannot tolerate something in the ear canal which causes an obstruction or occlusion in the ear canal." Enter this little device–it’s on the outside, tucked behind the upper

half of

the ear. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "It’s just like wearing an earring." Dr. Jules Musinger is the first doctor in New York to use the RetroX. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Procedure takes no more than 10 or 15 minutes, the amount of bleeding or oozing is very small." A hollow tube about the length of a penny is inserted at the back of the

ear.

The hearing module snaps into the tube… Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Most people would not even be aware you have anything." It may be hard to visualize, but inside this little module, barely the

size of

the tip of my finger is actually a computer chip and on that chip is an analysis of one’s hearing loss that’s all programmed by this computer. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "If the individual has this for over a period of time and he looses

hearing, we

can reprogram this digital to make up for any loss he’s lost along the

way."

Dr. Jerry Svboda got his RetroX implant last December. Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "Past five years perhaps, I noticed my hearing was slowly deteriorating." But traditional hearing aids only made his job tougher. Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "You feel like when your fingers are in your ears and sound is somehow

being

put on top of that." Now… Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "It’s a brighter sounding world to me." Even though the RetroX has a metal tube, it does not interfere with

security

scanners, having a MRI or CAT scan. And, you can get it wet as long as the digital component is removed. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Then you’re left with a tube, a hollow tube and there is a cover." Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "It’s like many things, it just fades into the background as it blends

into

your life." If the patient doesn’t like the device when all is said and done…it’s a

quick

fix… Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Just take it out–heals over in a couple of weeks." The RetroX costs about three thousand dollars. That includes the surgery, equipment and digital module. Related Link: http://www.aurichearingsystems.com/index.htm

Response:

There is no drilling involved!!!  Think of it as a body piercing behind the ear.  (10 minutes in the office) The only difference is the gauge of the piercing and the fact that it is actually a hollow titanium tube.  The hearing module is plugged into the tube.  What makes this product so unique is the fact that you will still hear sounds you are capable of hearing naturally.  The RetroX will only amplify the sounds you no longer hear, bringing your overall hearing to an acceptable level.

Response:

Source: bhNEWS From WROC TV, Rochester, NY Heard the News? (RetroX) 2/17/2003 5:00 PM (Elizabeth Harness, WROC-TV) The latest advance in hearing aid technology has come to Rochester. It’s an implantable hearing aid called the "RetroX." In this News 8 Now exclusive, Elizabeth Harness talks with the doctor who is the first in the state to use this "almost invisible" technology. 33 million people nationwide have a hearing problem…but only one-sixth wear a hearing aid. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Most people cannot tolerate something in the ear canal which causes an obstruction or occlusion in the ear canal." Enter this little device–it’s on the outside, tucked behind the upper half of the ear. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "It’s just like wearing an earring." Dr. Jules Musinger is the first doctor in New York to use the RetroX. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Procedure takes no more than 10 or 15 minutes, the amount of bleeding or oozing is very small." A hollow tube about the length of a penny is inserted at the back of the ear. The hearing module snaps into the tube… Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Most people would not even be aware you have anything." It may be hard to visualize, but inside this little module, barely the size of the tip of my finger is actually a computer chip and on that chip is an analysis of one’s hearing loss that’s all programmed by this computer. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "If the individual has this for over a period of time and he looses hearing, we can reprogram this digital to make up for any loss he’s lost along the way." Dr. Jerry Svboda got his RetroX implant last December. Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "Past five years perhaps, I noticed my hearing was slowly deteriorating." But traditional hearing aids only made his job tougher. Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "You feel like when your fingers are in your ears and sound is somehow being put on top of that." Now… Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "It’s a brighter sounding world to me." Even though the RetroX has a metal tube, it does not interfere with security scanners, having a MRI or CAT scan. And, you can get it wet as long as the digital component is removed. Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Then you’re left with a tube, a hollow tube and there is a cover." Dr. Jerry Svboda-RetroX Patient "It’s like many things, it just fades into the background as it blends into your life." If the patient doesn’t like the device when all is said and done…it’s a quick fix… Dr. Jules Musinger-Hearing Specialist "Just take it out–heals over in a couple of weeks." The RetroX costs about three thousand dollars. That includes the surgery, equipment and digital module. Related Link: http://www.aurichearingsystems.com/index.htm

Response:

Question:

My tongue hurts from the NTI. Anyone have that? It’s rubbing against it and it’s very sore? maybe that’s because it feels like a pacifier Hugs, Toe

     Are there any rough spots on it?  Mine’s real sloppy looking, not at all like the nice ones on Dr. Jim’s site and I had to file off a couple little burrs that bothered my lip and tongue.      Could be you’re just not used to it yet too.  I know I kept using my tongue to feel mine when I first got it. Lynn

Response:

My tongue hurts from the NTI. Anyone have that? It’s rubbing against it and it’s very sore? maybe that’s because it feels like a pacifier Hugs, Toe

Response:

I never heard of them being fitted on the bottom teeth.  That’s pretty interesting Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daytime appliance was made by my dentist for the bottom teeth, and is smoothe and easy to wear.  He charged me half of the night time NTI which came to $188 for the day appliance.  I paid $565 total with my credit card like I did for my lasik surgery.  I just wanted some relief. So far, after 3 weeks, it’s just getting better. You may need a daytime device for about 8 weeks. joy

Response:

THANX FOR YOUR ADVICE I’M THINKING OF THE DAYTIME BUT FOR 8 WEEKS? I WANT TO JUST WEAR MY NIGHT TIME DURING THE DAY??

      I might be wrong but I don’t think you’re suppose to wear the nighttime NTI during the day.  I bet there’s info about this on Dr. Jim’s website.  Yup… check out http://www.nti-tss.com/daytime-migraine-protocol.html. Lynn

Response:

THANX FOR YOUR ADVICE I’M THINKING OF THE DAYTIME BUT FOR 8 WEEKS? I WANT TO JUST WEAR MY NIGHT TIME DURING THE DAY??

Response:

My daytime appliance was made by my dentist for the bottom teeth, and is smoothe and easy to wear.  He charged me half of the night time NTI which came to $188 for the day appliance.  I paid $565 total with my credit card like I did for my lasik surgery.  I just wanted some relief. So far, after 3 weeks, it’s just getting better. You may need a daytime device for about 8 weeks. joy

Response:

c) you’re wearing it during the day and since it’s not a daytime device, it is encouraging activity and driving you nuts. I thought the inside of the daytime device is the same? I thought the difference is mainly the appearance and that it’s prevents you from doing more. but it will make my tongue less sore if I buy a daytime one? I can’t afford it seriously!

Response:

My tongue hurts from the NTI. Anyone have that? It’s rubbing against it and it’s very sore? maybe that’s because it feels like a pacifier Hugs, Toe

One of several things: a) it’s not been smoothed and polished enough b) your musculature is insistant on "doing something" (which isn’t really normal) c) you’re wearing it during the day and since it’s not a daytime device, it is encouraging activity and driving you nuts. -El I’ll-pick-all-of-the-above-O~

Response:

What life???  I don’t have one!  And neither does my family who has to stay home to help me…. Lisa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There may be no cure but I can’t suffer every day like this???? This is no life!

Response:

I completely agree that this is no way to live, but I’ve learned to embrace it.  Sounds corny, I know, but I’m entitled I’m in no way saying I want to stay in chronic pain.  It just took a lot of pressure off to realize there isn’t a cure.  I wish us all improved health, but I also think we’re quite lucky.  Chronic pain teaches us so many lessons about life that nonsufferers will never know. Best of luck to you on your quest Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There may be no cure but I can’t suffer every day like this???? This is no life!

Response:

There may be no cure but I can’t suffer every day like this???? This is no life!

Response:

[snip] when you want to get better really badly it’s hard not to try everything.

Toe, I completely understand what you mean.  The whole reason I paid $500 for the NTI, got three wisdom teeth pulled, took countless meds, saw all kinds of docs/specialists/neuros/therapists, went under hypnosis, tried acupuncture, physical therapy, massage, craniosacral therapy, and NAET (allergy elimination technique), tried headache diet, did my best to eliminate known triggers, tried different combinations of supplements, etc., was so I could find "the" cure. Finally coming to grips with the fact that there is no cure for migraines or fragrance sensitivities as of yet, I was able to step back and take a deep breath.  Acceptance took a lot of weight off my shoulders.  I know longer had to try so hard, which in itself is so draining. This newsgroup and other forums have meant so much to me  Love you guys!!! Take care, Jasmine

Response:

thanx jasmine, I think maybe if I give it a break I’ll be ok.. the only think is that I was so ill today I can’t figure out why.. Ok we’ll see. I did try a new medication so that’s a problem trying too many things at once.. when you want to get better really badly it’s hard not to try everything. hugs, Toe Thanx for the links

Response:

Oh, sorry I misunderstood  I heard about something called tongue thrust. Perhaps Dr. Boyd could explain.  Here are a couple sites I just found: http://www.eorthodontic.com/tonguethrust.htm http://www.braceface.com/tonguethrust.htm Hope the soreness goes away soon, Jasmine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – they are not on my bottom teeth? but the bump from the NTI protrudes along my bottom teeth and my tongue rubs against that protrusion and for some reason it’s so sore I refuse to wear it again tonight!

Response:

they are not on my bottom teeth? but the bump from the NTI protrudes along my bottom teeth and my tongue rubs against that protrusion and for some reason it’s so sore I refuse to wear it again tonight!

Response:

Question:

Woodcraft at 183 & Burnett has classes every month on various things. What kind of stuff do you you want to make? When you get ready to buy some lumber, I strongly recommend Fine Lumber in North Austin. If you live south, Paxtons is closer, but their prices are slightly higher. I usually go to Paxtons if I need one board, and Fine Lumber if I’m buying a bunch (I live way south). Loyd

Response:

Woodcraft at 183 & Burnett has classes every month on various things. What kind of stuff do you you want to make? When you get ready to buy some lumber, I strongly recommend Fine Lumber in North Austin. If you live south, Paxtons is closer, but their prices are slightly higher. I usually go to Paxtons if I need one board, and Fine Lumber if I’m buying a bunch (I live way south). Loyd

Thank you all so much for the responses. I haven’t made it to the Woodcraft store yet, but hope to get up there this weekend. I live South of Austin, in Kyle, so Woodcraft is a bit of a drive. This past weekend I purchased some basic tools; circular saw, jigsaw, clamps, and made my first two projects; A "knock down" work bench made entirely from one sheet of plywood, and a small planter box made of 1×2 and 1×4 lumber. While both came out okay I have a lot to learn about cutting straight lines. Even though I thought I measured everything correctly, used a combination square to make my cut lines, and used a straight edge as a guide for the longer cuts, my cuts came out all different sizes. Some of the cuts I made with the jigsaw even came out wider at the bottom than at the top. This woodworking is definetely going to be a fun challenge. Thanks again for the info. -Dan

Response:

Check out the following link. They are close by Austin and offer a one day introduction to hand tools. They have a 3 day class were you make a candle box and a book shelf using dovetails, mortise and tenon joints, dad’s, stopped dad’s, and rebates. If you see fit to take the classes, you will save yourself a bundle on power tools you don’t really need. http://homesteadheritage.com

Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Response:

My spell checker change dado’s to dad’s.

Check out the following link. They are close by Austin and offer a one day introduction to hand tools. They have a 3 day class were you make a candle box and a book shelf using dovetails, mortise and tenon joints, dad’s, stopped dad’s, and rebates. If you see fit to take the classes, you will save yourself a bundle on power tools you don’t really need. http://homesteadheritage.com

Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Dear Dan: Try your local Woodcraft Supply store…it is a great place to start. You will find the salespeople very friendly and most helpful for beginners.  They offer some great classes and instruction.  Please visit my web site:  www.americansycamoreretreat.com  thanks, Mike

Response:

The Woodcraft store at Burnet and 183 has classes.  Usually they are project specific instead of general woodworking, but it is a place to start.  ACC usually has some woodworking classes.  I haven’t looked at a catalog in a while, but a friend took some welding and concrete classes and was going to take cabinet making next. — Rusty Myers Austin, TX

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Response:

Hey Dan, Welcome to the hobby. I haven’t taken any, but ACC does offer classes on woodworking.  Look under "Building Construction Technology," in the latest course catalog (http://www3.austincc.edu/catalog/pdf/course_desc.pdf).  Despite the name, they seem to have some furniture oriented classes. You might also check out the classes at Woodcraft, which is at 183 and Burnet or Homestead Heritage (http://www.homesteadheritage.com/woodworking).  Again, I haven’t taken classes at either. Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Response:

The Woodcraft store at Burnet & 183 has classes all the time on different woodworking subjects.  The list of upcoming classes at this store at shown at this ugly URL: http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/assets/html/storesframed.asp?mscs… or go to http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/assets/html/homepage.asp and click on "Stores and Classes" and enter your Zip code. If you’re closer to south Austin, Paxton’s wood store hosts a woodworking club – if you go to the next one the folks there might know of something. You might also check to see if ACC has any classes and also the local highschools sometimes have evening classes for adults.  I did this last year in Scotland. Also, I’d be happy to meet you, look over the plans, talk tools and give you some advice.  I can’t build anything for a month because I had LASIK surgery today and the doctor said no sawdust!  Drop me an email if you’d like to meet. My web site is http://www.ccsi.com/~mbrown/ then click on the Woodworking link. Mike Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Dan, You have a Woodcraft store in town, and they usually have classes on a wide variety of subjects, including some beginner areas.  They can also help with other sources of classes.  The employees I’ve met at Woodcraft have all been woodworkers themselves, and I’m sure they would be happy to help.  They will also have information about local woodworking clubs.  Often, high schools have evening classes for adults. Start with simple projects.  See how things go together.  This will help lead you to more complicated projects as your skills increase. Woodcraft Crossroads Shopping Center 9070 Research Blvd., Suite 201 B Austin, TX 78758 (512) 407-8787 Cheers, Eric

Response:

Hi, I am interested in taking up Woodworking as a hobby. I’ve never done anything like this before, but have always had an interest. So, now I’m ready to start learning. I bought a book of easy projects using "dimmensional" wood (lumber?). Based upon reading this book it looks like I can get started with just a circular saw, jigsaw, sander, some clamps, chisels and assorted odds and ends. However, in looking over the plans in the book I find that I’m a bit confused by the drawings and am now thinking a class would be helpful. I checked my local community college (ACC) and the informal classes at UT, but neither listed any woodworking classes. Does anyone around Austin know if there are local classes offered someplace? Thanks, Dan

Response:

Question:

I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated.

I bought NYX glasses for shooting trap and skeet and they are great for golf. I have about 9 different lens shades/colors from very dark grey to clear. The price is right too. — Golfing in Arizona.

Response:

Nike sell a golf specific lens in a couple of styles.  I have a set that I like very much.

Response:

I bought NYX glasses for shooting trap and skeet and they are great for golf

I have NYX also, and I love them  HOWEVER, they are not Polarized.  They have UV protection, but not polarized.

Response:

I have NYX also, and I love them  HOWEVER, they are not Polarized.  They have UV protection, but not polarized.

You can have polarized lenses if you want them. I have 2 polarized lenses for my NYX glasses. One Pol. Grey and Pol. Amber. I use the Amber almost exclusively, but YMMV. I got them from Custom Sport Glasses in San Jose, CA. 1-800-414-8075 www.customsportglasses.com **VERY** nice people to do business with. If you got the "Golfing Package" or the equiv, you probably didn’t get a polarized lens. If I were buying new, I’d get the "Fisherman Package", which already has the Pol. grey and buy an extra Pol. amber lens. (The foam carry pouch has room to store extras lenses.) — Golfing in Arizona.

Response:

You can have polarized lenses if you want them.

Now, that’s something I did not know.  I thought I had a choice of two golf lens packages, each unpolarized, and that was it!  I got the amber tinted package.  My lenses are the swept variety.  How muck did the other lenses cost you?

Response:

I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated.

I’ve had Maui Jims — they’re awesome.  I don’t know if the lenses come in different shades, though… -Steve

Response:

You can have polarized lenses if you want them. Now, that’s something I did not know.  I thought I had a choice of two golf lens packages, each unpolarized, and that was it!  I got the amber tinted package.  My lenses are the swept variety.  How muck did the other lenses cost you?

I *think* they were about $26 for the polarized, but it’s been a while since I ordered them. I have the "carbon frame", aka plastic, which is a wrap around style, with the temple pieces coated with rubber for the last 2 3/4".   They have the removable nose thingy and the lens clips to the frame in the center, the rest of the lens fits in a groove. Check out the website for Customsportglasses for more info. When I ordered my lenses, the gal said, "When you get the lenses, just send me a check." A very refreshing way to do business! I don’t know if they do that all the time or I just caught her in a good mood, but they get my vote for the way a business should be run.  :) — Golfing in Arizona.

Response:

rose colored

Response:

Check out the website for Customsportglasses for more info.

I did.  It seems that the polarized lenses only come in the one piece style.

Response:

Pay attention to the color of the lens as well.  A ‘neutral’ color brown is better for maintaining color balance in what you see – avoid the obviously green, blue & red lenses.  Color balance helps with accurate percptions including distance.  One exception:  some golfers like the effect of yellow lenses on days that are severely overcast, foggy or rainy; it tends to brighten things up.  A lot of trapshooters swear by them for the same conditions as well.  YMMV – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated.

Response:

Check out the website for Customsportglasses for more info. I did.  It seems that the polarized lenses only come in the one piece style.

You really ought to call them. They will help you any way possible, I’m sure. Good Luck! — Golfing in Arizona.

Response:

I tried the PeakVisions from www.peakvisiongolf.com from an ad I saw in Golf early this summer. They have a patented gradient lens that lets you both view distance and read greens without ever taking them off. They are superb and not that expensive.  According to their web site, where I ordered them, this company licenses optics to other big manufacturers. Whatever, I did like these glasses – they have helped my game and I heartily recommend them. They are not polarized, which I think is overrated anyway. still in high handicaps tho ::: the slab :::

Response:

I tried the PeakVisions from www.peakvisiongolf.com from an ad I saw in Golf early this summer. They have a patented gradient lens that lets you both view distance and read greens without ever taking them off. They are superb and not that expensive.  According to their web site, where I ordered them, this company licenses optics to other big manufacturers.

Nyx golf also has gradient lenses – I wonder if it’s a different patent, or they bought those lenses.

Response:

I tried the PeakVisions from www.peakvisiongolf.com from an ad I saw in Golf early this summer. They have a patented gradient lens that lets you both view distance and read greens without ever taking them off. They are superb and not that expensive.  According to their web site, where I ordered them, this company licenses optics to other big manufacturers. Nyx golf also has gradient lenses – I wonder if it’s a different patent, or they bought those lenses.

Well, I finally looked into the NYX gradient and talked to PeakVision. PeakVision’s patent is for multi-gradient lenses (different tints on the same glass)  -  and apparently NYX can only gradient to clear, not multiple. So, PeakVision has Dual-Zone gradient for distance/putting on the same lens. NYX can’t. In any case, I am really liking the peakVisions. === the slab ===

Response:

I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated. Ethan

Response:

I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated. Ethan

Polaroids.  They do, I believe, come in different intensities and shades.

Response:

Oakley’s – VR28 golf lens – the one with the vents in the top. I got mine after PRK (now I’m showing my age – Lasik came along later). JayBird

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated. Ethan

Response:

Tell us your experience with Lasik.  I’m considering the same. -Greg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated. Ethan

Response:

check http://www.thesunglassguy.com I bought some from them (they’re inexpensive) and the wraps I use , called Sport 90s are in better shape after a year than my Bolles and Oakleys. FB —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated. Ethan

Response:

I recently had Lasik surgery. I have always worn sunglasses when playing, my prescription sunglasses were polarized and not all the lenses were not all that dark. What sunglasses would you recommend that are comfortable to wear, are polarized, and are do not have dark lenses. Any help would be appreciated. Ethan

Bolle sells good sunglasses with various lenses, including extra polarized lenses. They have one in a polarized brown, which is great for the course. I have had good luck with these people getting sunglasses: http://www.vqsunglasses.com/ Usual disclaimer: Blah Blah Blah no financial interest blah blah blah -Diva T-

Response:

Question:

Lars skrev i meddelelsen <0%%X7.113$%H5.2…@news.get2net.dk

… As you may have noticed there is also a troll posting under the name Doris Schmitz (arthu…@bellsouth.net). In spite of the name, Doris claims to be

a

man. That this person is also an alias of phm/charles webster seemed to be revealed in this post: where the charles webster alias G7W87…@hotmail.com accidentally signed ‘Doris’. (this could of course have been done intentionally to create confusion.) There also seems to be _some_ similarities between their

posting

histories, for instance both phm and Doris have written troll posts to alt.cats. But I haven’t really checked this out with any details.

I forgot to post the link to the post between the above two paragraphs. Here is the post (quoted from google). But again, it could be something CW (or whatever he’s called) did to confuse us! By the way, you may want to ignore what I said above about similarities in their posting histories (Doris’s and the prodigy troll’s that is) – I’m not really sure what I was reffering to (apart from the alt.cats thing). If someone with more technical expertise than myself would take a look at headers, do traces etc. they could probably get a better understanding of all this than it’s possible for me to get. Anyway, here’s the post: Message-ID: <3BB7C408.34D937CB@hotmail.com

From: G7W8775L <G7W87…@hotmail.com

Organization: – X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.support.ocd Subject: Re: to Cindy References: <20010929033543.28609.00001297@mb-fs.aol.com

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.90.179.15 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com 1001899019 ST000 66.90.179.15 (Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:16:59 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:16:59 EDT X-UserInfo1: F[OSAJS@EHBS@UXXOZOTOQMAPJYRE_LHCIXNMRQIMASJETAANVW[AKWZE]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_ ^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB_C@SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNBZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C _ BSYG__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEYFLVLGANTQQ]FN Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 01:16:59 GMT USE E-MAIL FOR THIS!!! DORIS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GiottoLady wrote:

x-no-archive: yes Cindy, thank you *so* much for the information on lasik surgery.  I’ve

been

wavering over having it done for a few years now.  After your experience, there’s just no way.  I hope your problems resolve soon.  I can’t imagine

how

awful it must be. On the kid front, my son is having a blast in London.  After all the

hassles

about getting duplicate prescriptions, etc., Customs didn’t even open his

bag.

He also knows if he doesn’t stay in touch the money flow stops, so he

emails

quite a bit.  I can’t believe how calm you seem about Shaun getting

mugged!  I

feel sick just thinking about it (and knowing my son is heading to Spain

for

his October break). Here’s to a better tomorrow for you and your family, Cindy. Kathy

Response:

There is one alias in particular that makes me suspicious, but I would rather not go into any more details about this, because my suspicion could be wrong. E-mail me if you would like an elaboration.

Damn Lars, you should have gone to detective school. Please elaborate because I’m tired of these games. Ida (really Ida)

Response:

Lars, Again, you have NO EVIDENCE to support your claims.  The individual in question *does* have an account – Prodigy – and posts here regularly under that account.  I don’t think Charles is a troll.   Either way, an alias is just an alias.  Anyone with half a brain can see that all the posters you are accusing me of being have a rather unusual writing style and don’t necessarily ‘go with the flow’ as far as postings are concerned. I still think you are making this up, without any supporting evidence whatsoever. And what does linking me with Doris have to do with anything? Again, you have no proof!  How is it going to disprove my ideas? But I’m getting quite amused at your incredibly inane attempt to prove anything other than how completely obsessed you are. If nothing else, you are bringing up various suspicions which you even admit may not even be true.  Can you make any more links other than just vague, weak circumstantial ones? Greg "Lars" <dtyguky…@get2net.dk

wrote in message

<0%%X7.113$%H5.2…@news.get2net.dk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I wrote most of this about a week ago. Thought this was as good a time as >any to send it: >The person who is currently writing under the names Bruce N. <b…@ntl.com

>and Weird Strange <alw…@home.com> has also previously been trolling under >a lot of other names including: G7W87…@hotmail.com , Harvey >(resea…@this.com), Charles Webster (C…@anon.com ,  cwebs…@anon.com and >others?), JazzMan (Jazz…@hotmail.com), KEPLLQRT@SPAM_THIShotmail.com, Sean >MacTavish (se…@hotmail.com) ClassicalMan (Classical…@hotmail.com), and >many others. The alias that this person has used that seems to come closest >to the truth is Phillip H. McGuffin (ph…@flash.net) that even had his own >website (called "the Unsung hero". – see link below.) >If you doubt that these aliases are the same persons, then check their >posting history where you will find a lot of similarities, mainly in their >troll posts on ASO, but also in their posts on other newsgroups, for example >it is interesting that both phm and

Response:

I wrote most of this about a week ago. Thought this was as good a time as any to send it: The person who is currently writing under the names Bruce N. <b…@ntl.com

and Weird Strange <alw…@home.com

has also previously been trolling under

a lot of other names including: G7W87…@hotmail.com , Harvey (resea…@this.com), Charles Webster (C…@anon.com ,  cwebs…@anon.com and others?), JazzMan (Jazz…@hotmail.com), KEPLLQRT@SPAM_THIShotmail.com, Sean MacTavish (se…@hotmail.com) ClassicalMan (Classical…@hotmail.com), and many others. The alias that this person has used that seems to come closest to the truth is Phillip H. McGuffin (ph…@flash.net) that even had his own website (called "the Unsung hero". – see link below.) If you doubt that these aliases are the same persons, then check their posting history where you will find a lot of similarities, mainly in their troll posts on ASO, but also in their posts on other newsgroups, for example it is interesting that both phm and Charles Webster has posted on alt.flame.niggers. More importantly, all these posters post from the ISP grandecom.com, and some of them has previously posted from flash.net. (Check their nntp-posting host on www.arin.net/whois.) For example if you do a check on Charles Webster, you will see that the earlier posts are from Flash, and the newer ones are from Grandecom, and the same goes for phm’s posts, even though the e-mail address still says flash. Also, in some of the posts, the NNTP-posting host seem to indicate that flash and grandecom.com share IP-addresses. For example, do a whois search at www.arin.net/whois of the nntp-posting host 208.194.194.6 which is the nntp posting host of Charles Webster’s posts in the thread "FUCK YOU, KBETH!" from February 2001. Another indication that phm is identical to CW came when Simon Smith posted the URL to phm’s website (http://www.flash.net/~phm01/) in reply to a post from the CW alias KEPLLQRT@SPAM_THIShotmail.com. Within the next 24 hours, phm had the site shut down. (At that time phm had only written one single post on ASO (as phm) for about 1

Question:

The following commentary is from the notebook of someone with tinnitus who understands that it goes beyond the idea of "sound." To treat people like they are weak if they cannot deal with their tinnitus and just refuse to allow it to be an issue in their life isn’t just wrong – it’s cruelty. PSA ——————————– In my experience, tinnitus has little to do with sound itself. Calling tinnitus a sound is only a means of describing it to other people. If I ask blind people what it’s like being blind, maybe they begin by telling me, "it’s darkness." It doesn’t follow that I should advise blind people to forget focusing on the darkness, "habituate to it and it will not be frightening." Darkness itself is not the hurdle blind people seek to surmount. Blindness is. In general, blind people are not afraid of the dark. They conquer fear of darkness; they don’t focus on the darkness; but still they are blind; still they must deal with the consequences of being blind. And for some, their life has been ruined. Sit and have a cup of coffee with one and you’ll likely receive a flood of emotions if they open up. It’s not just an issue; it is their life. Suppose a therapist says, "If you don’t think a lot about your blindness, it doesn’t exist." Most blind people would say, "What’s the next joke. You’re kidding, right? Now, can you teach me how to read Braille? Will you help me learn how to be a safe pedestrian?" ************************************************************************** Is telling someone the facts about their tinnitus [that there is no current method of treatment that will reduce the level of their tinnitus] cruelty? Hardly. Facts are facts. A blind man is blind and a person with tinnitus has tinnitus. As of right now, neither will ever change. Although with tinnitus you probably have less on your plate than the blind individual. Of course, if you pay someone $3800 for "treatment" that is promised to provide a lifetime of relief, you just might want to believe so badly that you weren’t stupid, that you’ll say it bothers you less.

Response:

PSA <p…@yahoo.com

wrote: Is telling someone the facts about their tinnitus [that there is no current method of treatment that will reduce the level of their tinnitus] cruelty? Hardly. Facts are facts. A blind man is blind and a person with tinnitus has tinnitus. As of right now, neither will ever change. Although with tinnitus you probably have less on your plate than the blind individual. Of course, if you pay someone $3800 for "treatment" that is promised to provide a lifetime of relief, you just might want to believe so badly that you weren’t stupid, that you’ll say it bothers you less.

…….. I would have paid $10,000 for the kind of relief I got through TRT. What is cruel, PSA, is to go on to a newsgroup like this and try to limit the legitimate options of those who suffer instead of expand them. You would keep a blind man blind … instead of showing him that there is more than one way to see. The only "Public Service" you perform, PSA, is that by continually posting such ludicrous trash, you just increase interest in precisely the very effective treatment options you criticize! Stephen M. Nagler, M.D. www.tinn.com (The opinions expressed above and in all my posts are my own and should not be interpreted in any other light.)

Response:

<<The only "Public Service" you perform, PSA, is that by continually posting such ludicrous trash, you just increase interest in precisely the very effective treatment options you criticize

Great!   I’m so glad to hear that PSA is helping your TRT business!

Response:

On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:18:58 -0500, Stephen Nagler <nag…@tinn.com

wrote:

I would have paid $10,000 for the kind of relief I got through TRT.

Another shameless plug for TRT.

What is cruel, PSA, is to go on to a newsgroup like this and try to limit the legitimate options of those who suffer instead of expand them.

No one is doing anything of the sort. It’s obvious that even questioning TRT brings out the thought police. What is it that needs so desperately to be hidden in plain sight?

You would keep a blind man blind <<

A blind man is blind. You would even refuse to realise that. Is it a stretch to wonder that if someone fails at TRT at your clinic that they just must not have tried hard enough?

… instead of showing him that there is more than one way to see.

Now, despite not being blind, you would insist upon showing that person how to live. I shudder to think of your concocting some elixir where blind people are offered "relief."

The only "Public Service" you perform, PSA, is that by continually posting such ludicrous trash, you just increase interest in precisely the very effective treatment options you criticize!

Place a cup under your chin. You are foaming and you wouldn’t want to appear to have piddled the rug.

Stephen M. Nagler, M.D. www.tinn.com

Another shameless plug to visit your website. I’m told your website states: TWO DAYS IN ATLANTA…A LIFETIME of relief. How could you state that? Now THAT is cruelty to tell that to an individual. Anyone low enough to make an unsubstantiated claim like that to people in distress reeks of being a marketeer with no shame. You cannot demonstrate a "lifetime of relief". Therefore, anything you are offering is subject. All IMO, of course. LASIK surgery has no lifetime guarantees and it has been studied FAR more than TRT. If you ask an ophthalmologist to guarantee you won’t have a problem in 20 years, he’ll tell you that he can’t because the studies aren’t that long in duration. Does TRT have a better longitudinal record than LASIK? I don’t believe it does. I think this [your conduct] all explains why the TRT thread on your moderated board, that politely appears to question the validity of TRT, was moved from the main board. PSA

Response:

PSA <p…@yahoo.com

wrote: I think this [your conduct] all explains why the TRT thread on your moderated board, that politely appears to question the validity of TRT, was moved from the main board.

……. It was moved from the main board because it contained personal digs. And personal digs are not permitted on the moderated board.  The rules are very clearly posted. And those personal digs?  They were compliments of a visitor from ast. Is it any surprise! The moderated board is thriving.  Over 400 registered participants.   The URL is  http://pub63.ezboard.com/ftinnitussupport92262frm1 stephen nagler

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<<And those personal digs?  They were compliments of a visitor from ast

More bullshit accusations with sero proof of anything. <<The moderated board is thriving

Fine….then keep your pathetic scum sucking sorry ass over there and away from here.  Feel free to NOT return here…..EVER!!!

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<<More bullshit accusations with sero proof of anything.

spell check….ZERO proof

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<<The moderated board is thriving.  Over 400 registered participants

So what? The nazi party had millions. Look what happened to them. Despite initially being believed by the German public, eventually people were brought to their senses about the Nazis and faced reality. But someone had to keep slapping them upside the head to get them to understand. Note the similarity and the destiny.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -PSA wrote:

The following commentary is from the notebook of someone with tinnitus who understands that it goes beyond the idea of "sound." To treat people like they are weak if they cannot deal with their tinnitus and just refuse to allow it to be an issue in their life isn’t just wrong – it’s cruelty. PSA ——————————– In my experience, tinnitus has little to do with sound itself. Calling tinnitus a sound is only a means of describing it to other people. If I ask blind people what it’s like being blind, maybe they begin by telling me, "it’s darkness." It doesn’t follow that I should advise blind people to forget focusing on the darkness, "habituate to it and it will not be frightening." Darkness itself is not the hurdle blind people seek to surmount. Blindness is. In general, blind people are not afraid of the dark. They conquer fear of darkness; they don’t focus on the darkness; but still they are blind; still they must deal with the consequences of being blind. And for some, their life has been ruined. Sit and have a cup of coffee with one and you’ll likely receive a flood of emotions if they open up. It’s not just an issue; it is their life. Suppose a therapist says, "If you don’t think a lot about your blindness, it doesn’t exist." Most blind people would say, "What’s the next joke. You’re kidding, right? Now, can you teach me how to read Braille? Will you help me learn how to be a safe pedestrian?" ************************************************************************** Is telling someone the facts about their tinnitus [that there is no current method of treatment that will reduce the level of their tinnitus] cruelty? Hardly. Facts are facts. A blind man is blind and a person with tinnitus has tinnitus. As of right now, neither will ever change. Although with tinnitus you probably have less on your plate than the blind individual. Of course, if you pay someone $3800 for "treatment" that is promised to provide a lifetime of relief, you just might want to believe so badly that you weren’t stupid, that you’ll say it bothers you less.

are you, yourself, blind??  if not, then i suggest you back off from promoting this person’s "journalized thoughts" as being the prevailing opinion among those who have some sort of disability, namely blindness or deafness. what you seem to forget is that we are all distinct individuals and what   is true for one person won’t be for another, or rather, as my college terrorism professor lectured last week, "one person’s terrorist might be another’s freedom fighter." sorry to burst your bubble, but your comprehension of this person’s thoughts are off the mark.  of course, you’d have to be blind, yourself, to know what i mean. mvenice

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